What are some of the things/people around Rocky that give his masculine characterization meaning? How does counter identification work in these two films? Make a comment about how Adrian is characterized in the two films, particularly in all of the discussions between Rocky and Paulie. You should also think of Adrian in the context of other women characters and types we have seen this semester.
To receive credit, you must support your answers by referring to a specific scene from either Rocky I or Rocky II. You cannot repeat a scene or moment that is already being discussed so be creative with your examples.
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The people around Rocky that characterize his masculinity is the fact that he
comes from a poorer Italian Catholic community and this shapes who he is. It
shapes his values, morals, and the way in which he plays his character also
reinforces the way that this community has shaped him. In the scene where he is
entering the rink to fight Apollo, he has a robe on and the robe reminds me of a
priest’s robe and the colors of red and yellow also are significant. Red can
stand for confidence, courage, vitality, and yellow means wisdom, happiness,
intelligence. This puts Rocky in a more innocent and benevolent light opposite
Apollo’s appearance that screams money, greed, and arrogance. Although I could
not say that Rocky’s masculinity is soft-boiled, there is a sort of goodness
that is portrayed in this scene. It’s almost as if to say that he’s going to be
aggressive and violent, but it’s about fighting for a good cause, for what he
represents. Fighting is his life and that’s what he fights for. Adrian is
portrayed as the woman on the sidelines so to speak. Rocky is all absorbed in
fighting that it almost seems like he forgets about her. In comparison with
other women characters we have seen this semester, she seems to be the most
subservient, quiet one.
Rocky’s characterization of masculinity is definitely challenged by Apollo’s successful masculine archetype. Apollo has everything that Rocky could ever want- fame, courage and success. Rocky is trying to make it in America as an Italian seeking the American Dream. In the scene where Rocky and Apollo are being interviewed on T.V., Adrian is so proud and astounded that Rocky is on T.V. However, to most people it seems the media was portraying him to be unintelligent and kind of dense, whereas Apollo is well-spoken and speaks a lot. Rocky is kind of silenced by the reporters. However, I do think this scene depicts the simplicity of his masculinity. It does not take a lot to make Rocky happy. He knows that he is strong and confident and able to win the fight, even if everyone else thinks otherwise. His masculinity is comparable to Apollo because both are minorities in the scheme of the American population and I believe that Rocky looks to Apollo as almost a mentor. Especially in the T.V. scene because Rocky does not appear to be intimidated- he’s ready to fight.
I am under the belief that Rocky’s masculinity is strictly physical. He tends to treat animals and other people with an unforeseen gentleness. A good portion of his day seemed to be devoted to caring for his pets and scouting out prospective new pets to own. Even in the first Rocky film, Rocky could not do what he was ordered to do as a collector for his crime boss and did not break the degenerate’s finger. I also thought that it was peculiar that Rocky never returned fire when the people in his neighborhood would heckle him as he was walking. It was as if Rocky’s life was central to everyone in his neighborhood and whatever Rocky accomplished that day would either get him heckled or cheered on. Rocky was undoubtedly a masculine man on the outside but inside he was a gentle man with good intentions. In the first Rocky film I was under the impression that Adrian might have been a deaf mute due to her lack of responses to Rocky and the way that other people spoke about her. (e.g the loan sharks driver who told Rocky to take her to the zoo.) As time progressed (very little time as I noted) Adrian seemed to shed her shyness and develop a more normal personality that involved speaking to others. Adrian fell into the same category as many of the female characters that we examined throughout the year as she came off as helpless and unable to live on her own, a direct quote from Paulie.
rocky is masculine mostly because of his physical attributes rather than because of some mental component that helps him dominate over others. He is seen as physical through being around other people such as pauly and Adrian throughout most of the movie. There really was no other counterpart that Rocky was around that could compare to him physically and Apollo was the only other person in the movie that was on any where near the same level as rocky. Everyone is not superiorly physical in the movie that surround Rocky but I think that people are able to compare with Rocky because of his lack of wit such as with the scene where the fighting promoter asks Rocky to fight Apollo and Rocky is unable to say no even though he is tempted too because the man talks him into fighting. Rocky is a regular joe that is not too smart and not too attractive but he is the classic american dream. Adrian is characterized as a helpless and strange girl that is incapable of living without someone there to protect her. Firt she lives with pauly and then she lives with rocky when she tells pauly off and says she doesn’t need him anymore. I think that it definitely goes along with the ways that women have been portrayed all along.
I agree with Cameron about Rocky’s maculinity seeming to be strictly physical. His gentle demeanor showed a soft-boiled masculinity which directly conflicts with this hardbody, hard-boiled persona. I think that the fight against Apollo when Rocky stands the 15 rounds and actually gets up proves his determination and will power, two very masculine ideals. Adrian is just the supportive woman. In the beginning she’s just a quiet one and doesn’t seem to even really be given much attention. To me Adrian seems like any other woman we’ve seen this semester, just another woman supporting her man.
I Think that Rocky’s masculinity is a different brand from what we see in other men in the Rocky franchise. Rocky has an almost feminine morality compared with the other Men around him that I think makes him more accessible and lovable to the audience. There are several scenes with interactions between rocky and other men that create this difference. Rocky first show his differences when he refuses to break the finger of the guy who fell behind on his payments. This shows a compassion for his peers who are struggling to get by. Rocky also shows his compassion in the way he treats Adrian. The one scene that really shows this is when Pauli is trying to get Adrian to go out with Rocky and she won’t listen to her but Rocky has the ability to connect on a level that Pauli has no access to. Another scene where Rocky shows his feminine side is that he is not just interested in Adrian sexually, he genuinely likes her. There is a scene were Pauli and Rocky are fighting and Pauli yells “Are you Banging my sister” Pauli can only think of sex in a relationship and to him it is strictly physical. Rocky and Adrian both understand that there is an additional element of care and compassion that Pauli and many of the other males in the movie don’t have access too. Rocky is more than just a masculine hard body, hes a hard body with a soul.
Rocky Balboa’s masculinity is marked by a personal experience of emotional self-actualization that transcends his raw physicality and role as an underdog boxer. As any athlete will tell you, physical strength is enhanced by a mental and emotional resilience, which develops in Rocky primarily though the character’s interpersonal relationships. Rocky’s development both physically and emotionally is enhanced through his relationships with principle love interest, Adrian and boxing rival Apollo Creed as well as the father-figure trainer, Mickey, and Adrian’s brother Paulie. His masculinity is still caught up in boxing and fighting, but he is attempting to prove himself as a man who will not fight, in part due to the fact that he had blinded his last opponent, something he feels strong remorse for.
Rocky’s masculinity and Adrian’s femininity are expressed in relation, not opposition, to each other. In Rocky’s own words, their relationship with one another is about “filling gaps.†He tells Paulie in the meat locker, “I don’t know…she’s got gaps, I’ve got gaps; together we fill gaps.â€
In an exchange between Rocky and Adrian at the ice rink, Rocky reveals that his motivation for becoming a boxer was stimulated by something his father said to him, “You weren’t born with much of a brain so better start using your body.†Adrian replies that her mother informed her, “You weren’t born with much of a body so better start developing your brain.†This early scene in the film’s narrative demonstrates that Adrian and Rocky complement each other in the most basic way, a way that never denigrates Adrian’s status as his female counterpart, but rather provides a foundation for a relationship based in mutual regard, balance, and equality between them.
I agree that Rocky is seen as physically strong, but not mentally strong. He does not articulate himself well and is not very bright. He is very kind and gentle despite his overwhelming physical strength. In Rocky II, he expresses to Adrian that he does not want their son to grow up like him. He wants him to be smarter and not a fighter. Apollo also expresses these sentiments when he is being interviewed on television. Apollo talks about the importance of having a real job and getting a good education. Though Apollo seems more articulate than Rocky, they are both in the same business, though they come from different backgrounds.
Adrian is seen as a meek individual, but through the films she gets stronger and more vocal about different things. She is basically forced to go on a date with Rocky on Thanksgiving and has almost no say in the matter. This scene seemed a little awkward to me because Rocky and Adrian had never interacted before outside of the pet store. Also, Adrian had no idea she was going on a date in the first place, and was all set to have a nice Thanksgiving dinner. At the end of the first film, Adrian seems to have come out of her shell a little more. At the end of the fight, she jumps into Rocky’s arms and confesses her love for him. She becomes even more vocal in the second film when she is trying to convince Rocky not to fight anymore. She wants him to settle down and be a good father for their son.
Rocky’s rawer physical masculinity is characterized throughout the movie as indicative of his purer nature, uncorrupted by the slick corporate life or the elaborate upkeep of appearances. He has an easy rapport with animals, for example, and his surroundings are often dank urban settings – he trains on the Philadelphia streets, and in coolers punching raw meat. While Apollo has the muscled “hardbody,” we never see him train – we only see him in his polished, white-collar surroundings of choice, and so he is less masculine in contrast with Rocky’s hard-earned body. Apollo’s body is a tool for performance, appearances and profit; Rocky’s body is inherent to his rawer, simpler nature that is shown as the better in this film. This physicality helps Adrian, who appears profoundly unhappy at the beginning of “Rocky,” emerge from her own cage. She reveals that she was taught only to develop her mind because she didn’t have “much of a body.” The scene in Rocky’s apartment shows the transition from her terror of the physical to her embracing of it. From the beginning of the scene, Rocky has divested himself of his winter garments and is in a sleeveless shirt that displays his masculine hardbody, while Adrian remains bundled in a hat and thick winter clothes. As the scene progresses, Rocky removes her glasses and hat, and calls her pretty, drawing attention to her body in a positive way, and kisses her, eventually getting her to kiss back. We see over the course of the film that she has grown more comfortable with physicality (she wears marginally more revealing clothing, stops wearing the glasses, and wants to “fool around”) – and seems the happier for it. This lowering of her physical inhibitions seems to unlock something in her that allows her to feel her true nature and express herself, such as when she is able to scream at Paulie when he stumbles in drunk, and tell Rocky that she loves him when before she could not even bring herself to say yes to a date. This seems to illustrate that the physicalitythat Rocky embodies is a key to a deeper sense of self.
I thought that it was interesting to see how Rocky’s characterization of masculinity plays in contrast to Apollo’s masculinity. It was evident in Rocky I how Apollo displays his masculinity through his arrogance and certainty. He is extremely confident and believes that he is unstoppable. The fact that he is a successful black male achieving one of the biggest moments in history also plays into his character. Rocky on the other hand is shown as a struggling white male who seems to be incapable of comprehending or taking on big tasks such as winning the championship title. When he is being interviewed on t.v he seems uneasy and a lot less confident than Apollo. Adrian’s response to the interview seems unspeakable. She is ultimately surprised that someone from the lower Irish catholic class is able to receive such a great opportunity. Adrian, unlike many female characters we’ve seen in this class, is able to voice her opinion about particular situations throughout the movie. For instance, she tries to convince Rocky to quit fighting for their sake of keeping the family together. However, when he chooses not to, she still stands by him in spite of everything. For instance, right before Rocky is about to fight Apollo he says to her, “Don’t leave town. ” As a result, she chooses to stand by him and does not, so to speak, “leave town.”
I think Rocky’s masculine characteristics are not only physical but also mental. Before Rocky was with Adrian he didn’t seem to express his feelings or admit when something was really bothering him. However when he was with Adrian he seemed to be able to admit when something bothered him for instance when he got his locker taken away after 6 years. I also feel that his “hard body” made him extremely masculine. In the scene during Rocky I Paulie had to use a baseball bat to scare Rocky and Adrian. Paulie had to inflict damage upon things with a weapon whereas Rocky’s weapons were his own hands.
Adrian on the other hand seems extremely reliant upon the men in her life. Before Rocky came along Paulie was always there to tell her what to do. In one scene Paulie came back to the house so that Rocky and Adrian could go on a date. Paulie assured Rocky that Adrian agreed and was excited about the date but when they got the house she wanted Rocky to go away. Paulie then proceeded to yell at her until she agreed to go on the date, and she did go. After Adrian went out she seemed to really get attached to Rocky and they always were around each other. Paulie used Adrian as his leverage with Rocky. For instance when Paulie wanted Rocky to be interviewed at the meat packing plant he told Rocky how much Adrian likes him and that’s what made him go in for the interview. Paulie believed he always took care of Adrian and now that she had a boyfriend it was her turn to start helping him back out.
What gives Rocky’s masculine characterization meaning is the neighborhood he lives in and his opponent Apollo-Creed. Rocky has been poor most of his life and seeing how wealthy Apollo is and driving past all of the stores with the fancy items influences the sequence in Rocky II where Rocky goes out and buys all of these expensive things for him and Adrian. This sequence reflects his masculine desires to be wealthy and better than everyone else — even if he doesn’t need half of the stuff he buys. Adrian is characterized in both films as someone who is weak and unable to fend for herself. Whenever Rocky and Paulie talk about her, they make her out to be someone who is very quiet and unaware of the real world. Even though in comparison to other women characters we have talked about throughout the semester she is subserviant to her man like the other women, the difference is that she is at least modest. Unlike the other women characters, she is always wearing a lot of layers and has a lot of hesitation in the beginning when it comes to progressing sexually with Rocky.
A scene that answers this question well is the one we watched in class where Rock is watchin himself on the TV.
When talkin bout Adrian, it would seem she is the polar opposite of a lot of the women we have read about or discussed. Adrian is shy and reserved, in no way promiscuous, a real sweet girl.
Paulie is painted much like Rocky in some regards. Paulie doesn’t appear to be the brightest bulb or the most sophisticated person, much like Rocky, but the difference is Rocky is a fighter. Now when i speak of fighter i mean yes the literally a boxer but also Rocky has a dynamic perseverance that Paulie certainly does not. Rocky is brave and genuine, and while Paulie too may be genuine, his courage is lesser, and thus Rock’s charisma and appeal are broadcasted louder.
A lot of counter identification is also portrayed well in the TV scene. Apollo is doing business, while Rocky is taking care of business. in a sense like many of the Rocky films, arrogance leads to a downfall and hard work and determination wins out.
So why does Rock’s appeal and masculine nature have meaning? well for one the movie paints the picture that way so we have no choice.
People root for the Underdog (Rocky)
While still an underdog, he is leader of the underdog’s (Paule contrast)
HUBRIS ( Apollo’s downfall)
It’s almost a feel good movie, so obviously that combined with Rocky’s determination courage and heart makes him shine, and thus his masculinity appeal.
Ben, you said, “Rocky’s masculinity and Adrian’s femininity are expressed in relation, not opposition, to each other. In Rocky’s own words, their relationship with one another is about “filling gaps.†He tells Paulie in the meat locker, “I don’t know…she’s got gaps, I’ve got gaps; together we fill gaps.†I like your point, as the very same quote really seemed to stick out in my head as well. I feel as though, however, a bit different than you say, that Rocky is indeed shown in opposition to her in the sense that Adrian, through counter identification, exactly shows who Rocky truly is, a masculine man with brawn, not brains.
I think that one huge part of Rocky’s counter identification is in Rocky 1, where he is running through the streets and you can see the shithole of a place that he comes from. It is a city full of landfills, city dumps and pollution. The fact that Rocky comes out of this hellhole is pretty significant, like the clichéd “rags to riches†stories. Another facet to this is the music that usually surrounds him; it is epic, successful sounding, and almost feels like an underdog is coming back for the win. (The scene I am referencing is the one where he is in the midst of his training, running through the streets.) Also, later in this scene, he basically beats up dead animals by pounding on the frozen pork/beef; this shows how he is the only living thing in the room, where he is successful in the sense that he is surviving in this tough world, but the poor little piglets didn’t. Another part of this scene comparing him to other dead, waste-like things around him is where he runs through the dump, or at least what appeared to be some kind of junkyard. Also, at one point, I super-analyzed it, but here goes: Rocky is running against the current where he runs in the opposite direction that the ship is pointing, thus showing his perseverance to attain his goal and defeats his rival boxers. I also like the foreshadowing of the championing music at the end of his training.
I also found it interesting how Rocky’s opponent is a black man who is adorning American, U.S.A.-colored trunks; it is almost like Rocky, his little Italian self, is taking on this newfound black America, and what I mean by that is that America was always white, once they stole the land from the Native-Americans…but then more and more African-Americans were accepted, and Rocky journeyed too also be accepted as the Italian-American hard-bodied “other†man who he truly is. Rocky never gives in; he never surrenders, but his opponent (Apollo) is even hesitant to fight him where he is in such bad shape near the fight’s end. It is also interesting how Apollo is Rocky’s opponent in both Rocky 1 and Rocky 2…Does anyone have any thoughts about the point of this, or what this could mean?
The scene during Rocky’s final fight in Rocky 1 is interesting because I got the feeling that even though his coaches were telling him to stay down when he got knocked down and couldn’t even hold his hands up, Adrian walks in with her red cap and serves as his inspiration for whom he fights, as she is shown as weak and helpless. During this scene, Adrian is so fragile and scared that she can barely stand to keep her eyes open during the fight. Another aspect of her weakness is her crying, as you can clearly see tears in her eyes. She is therefore depicted as a weak, helpless little girl in need of a man to fight all her battles; these are obviously not my beliefs about women, just felt the need to clear that up.
There are many things that shape Rocky’s masculinity. The two main things that I can think of have been touched upon already – his Italian American background, and the juxtaposition between his physical and mental state. His gentle nature gives a new spin on masculinity, in terms of what we have discussed this semester. Unlike Bruce Lee, Rocky is a more dimensional character and has more to show than just his brute strength. He is a gentle, sweet man which is incongruous to his large, muscular physique. His personality does not match up with the masculine types that have been discussed in the semester. Therefore, I agree with the above commenter who stated that his masculinity is strictly physical.
One scene that shows how Adrian is characterized is in Rocky I, when Paulie and Rocky get into a fight over her during Thanksgiving dinner. Paulie and Rocky are friends, but Paulie becomes intimidated and angered by him in regards to his career and his relations with Adrian. He takes his frustration out on her at first, abusing her and calling her names. Rocky steps in to protect her and won’t let him saying anything bad about his sister. Throughout the two films Rocky wanted nothing more than to protect Adrian and be there for her. Aside from boxing, she is the most important thing in his life and that is abundantly clear throughout the two movies. Even before they were serious he wanted her safe, even from her brother.
Adrian has a bigger role than other female characters we’ve encountered. She is more dimensional and grew throughout the two films. At first she lived with her brother, but then she moved out and married and started a family with Rocky. She ended up having the life she wanted and created her own happiness, despite things and people (e.g. Paulie) that always told her she wasn’t good enough.
Rocky is a very masculine character mostly due to his strength and physical appearance. He is much more in shape than any of the characters around him except for Apollo. His physical strength is seen in the training montage that ends with Rocky running up the large flight of stairs and boxing in the air at the top. This also shows his, as others described it, soft boiled masculine side. He is dancing and celebrating around a large group of children. Rocky seems to be a child at heart due to his light hearted nature and his innocence. He is training and fighting for good and this is reflected in this scene. Adrian is seen as a very dependent character who cannot live on her own. She lives with Pauly first and then with Rocky. She is a character that supports her man and stands behind him. She is very shy and begins to come out of her shell late in the first movie. The relationship between Rocky and Adrian is a very innocent and child like relationship. The two are set up and they love each other in a not only physical way.
Rocky is masculine for a few reasons 1) physical strength 2) lack of critical thought 3) unrelenting determination to acheive his ultimate vision of masculinity–a world champion boxer who can provide.
Based on these traits I akin Rocky to that of a bull. Derek mentions the scene where Adrian is wearing the red cap. It seems that the red cap represents the red cloth that a matador uses to entice the bull to charge. Then Rocky goes n takes care of business with no regard for personal well being. This is pertinent to the first part of the prompt. Adrian gives Rocky meaning by being his motivator, giving him something other then himself to live for, to fight for, to be a man for. Without Adrian he was struggling and had no direction. With her he is fighting to protect/shelter/feed her. He will do so at all costs. This type of determination is a characteristic of all hyper masculine archetypes.
Paulie is an alcoholic loser basically. Nice guy, but he has nothing to live for either. No wife, not child, only Adrian. Rocky creates a tension as he comes in at basically takes Adrian out of his life. This was the undercurrent of tension that motivated the Thanksgiving scene conflict in my opinion.
Paulie is the degenerate drunk masculine archetype, but Rocky gives him direction when making him the manager. As a manager, Paulie now has someone to care for in Rocky, in the sense that it is his responsibility to throw in the towel, to guide his fighting strategy in the ring.
Adrian, though by no means smart, is at least somewhat aware of what is good an bad for Rocky’s health/life. I think Adrian represents the soft side of Rocky that he does not have.
I have always been curious about one thing for this movie. WHY ARE ROCKY AND ADRIAN BOTH SO DAMN WEIRD??? How come they did not try to act out some more normal relationship? Not all poor people are meatheads, and pet store ladies ultra-submissive basket cases (haha might be harsh but wtf??) What is the point of portraying this couple as so odd? The interaction between Adrian and Rocky always seems tense, fraught with inner-conflict and lack of confidence. Were Rocky or Adrian first time lovers? They are both social outcasts.
One scene in which there is a good deal of counter identification regarding Adrian and Rocky is the scene in Rocky II where Adrian is working in the pet shop and Rocky, on his way home from work, stops in and convinces her to leave with him. In this scene, Adrian is portrayed as fiscally responsible, as when Rocky says that she should forget about the job to rest, she insists that they need the money. Rocky is shown to be irresponsible with money, the opposite of Adrian, and his deference to her regarding this issue puts added emphasis on this counter identification. He is also shown to be much more outgoing. Over the course of their conversation, Adrian is repeatedly looking down, putting emphasis on the fact that Rocky does not stop looking directly at her the entire time. He tells her a joke, and she gives a very shy little giggle while looking down, further showing her shyness and his outgoing nature. Also, the fact that he helps Adrian by carrying the heavy bag and pouring its contents into the cage presents Rocky as strong and powerful and Adrian as weak. She struggles with the bag, and then Rocky, being very masculine, has no problems with it at all. As soon as he is done pouring it, he just drops it on the ground, as he doesn’t really care about the same things that Adrian is supposed to care about.
When you look at Apollo and his construction of black masculinity and juxtapose it with that of Rocky’s you find some startling comparisons. Whatever one seems to have, the other lacks. Apollo, for example, is a people person. He’s amiable, fans love him and admire him. Rocky is quiet, doesn’t really talk much to other people and when he does he is awkward and bumbling. With the tension both bring to the ring, we see how Rocky constructs his masculinity in opposition to Apollo. Consider the moment when Rocky first enters the ring with Apollo. Rocky knocks him right out at the outset of the match. The tension then explodes as the two of them don’t hold back any more and just give one another their best shots. This seems to be the essence of masculinity in a certain way–the showmanship of strength and the display of power. The fact that Adrian stands by Rocky through the entire ordeal is a testament to the roles that women play in Rocky’s life. Because she is constantly supportive and he tells her his secret (that he does not believe he will manage to beat Creed, but wishes to last 15 rounds with him) proves that she is his inner strength.
In Rocky I and II, Apollo is evidently Rocky’s personal challenge, not only for a physical fight but also for his own piece of mind. He gains more confidence as he progresses as a boxer. It was interesting to see his positive boost in confidence from the first film to the second. He fights a fair fight while Apollo seems to have only money on his mind and tries to win people over through publicity. I think that although Rocky doesn’t boast it, he is definitely very comfortable with himself. He doesn’t beat around the bush, he knows what he wants and he will do whatever he needs to do to get what he wants. He is characterized as an underdog but his masculinity is exuded through his persevering fighting. His training techniques such as punching the meat, and drinking raw eggs shows his hard-boiled masculine body image. I don’t know about any of you, but I would be crying after one punch in a fight like that. Rocky takes massive amounts of pain and punches to the face, and isn’t phased by it, he just takes it. In terms of his girlfriend Adrian, she never seems very enthused about Rocky’s fights. She is characterized as not very strong and always has a nervous and worried look on her face eagerly waiting to see what happens. Even when they are alone together, like the scene after their marriage, she seems very timid toward him but you can tell they really love each other. She is still supportive of his dream and stands by him through it all. In Rocky II, the rematch between Apollo and Rocky, Apollo’s coach says “This man is dangerous!†and Apollo toughens up and says “I’m dangerous!†Rockys coach says “Come on! You’re a titan!†Each coach is trying to make them angry and revved up for the fight. Rocky always seems to go for Apollo’s ribs, he knows it’s a weak spot for him. Overall, Rocky is characterized as an underdog and sometimes he doesn’t even realize the potential he has as a boxer.